Alexander Fisher
Sex: M
Individual Information
Birth: Mar 1881 - Dundee, Forfarshire 1
Christening:
Death:
Burial:
Cause of Death:
AFN :
Events
Census: 3 Apr 1881, 131 Rosebank Street, Dundee, Forfarshire. 2
Parents
Father: John Fisher (1859- )
Mother: Jane Ann (Fisher) (Abt 1861- )
Alexander Fisher
Sex: M
Individual Information
Birth: 26 Feb 1840 - Dundee, Forfarshire 3
Christening: 8 Mar 1840 - Dundee, Forfarshire 3
Death:
Burial:
Cause of Death:
AFN :
Parents
Father: Alexander Fisher (Cir 1800-1893)
Mother: Isabella Mitchell ( - )
Alexander Fisher
Sex: M
AKA: Alex Fisher
Individual Information
Birth: 6 May 1886 - Dundee, Forfarshire 4
Christening:
Death:
Burial:
Cause of Death:
AFN :
Events
Census: 1891, 5 Apr 1891, 20 Lawson Place, Dundee, Forfarshire.
Census: 1901, 31 Mar 1901, 10 S George Street, St. Andrews parish, Dundee, Forfarshire.
Occupation: Jute Mill worker, 31 Mar 1901, Dundee, Forfarshire.
Occupation: House Painter (Apprentice), 6 Mar 1908, Dundee, Forfarshire. 4
Residence: At the time of marriage, 6 Mar 1908, 118 Hilltown, Dundee. 4
Parents
Father: David Robertson Fisher (1861-1937) 5
Mother: Elisabeth Reid Stewart (1857-1917)
Spouses and Children
1. *Elizabeth Martin (Cir 1888 - ) 4
Marriage: 6 Mar 1908 - 18 Albany Terrace, Dundee 4
Living
Sex: F
Parents
Father: Joseph Carrie Fisher (1893-1954) 6
Mother: Isabella Gair Milne (1909-1996) 7
Spouses and Children
1. Living
Children:
1. Living
2. Living
David Fisher
Sex: M
Individual Information
Birth: 9 Oct 1895 - 20 Lawson Place, Dundee, Forfarshire 9
Christening:
Death: 14 Sep 1914 - Battle Of The Aisne, France ("Great War") 10
Burial:
Cause of Death:
AFN :
Events
Census: 1901, 31 Mar 1901, 10 S George Street, St. Andrews parish, Dundee, Forfarshire.
Education: Attended school, To Jul 1908, Ann Street Public School, Dundee. 8
Education: Enrolled at school, 17 Aug 1908, Morgan Academy, Dundee. 8
Residence: At time of David Fisher's (Born 1895)enrolment at Morgan Academy, 17 Aug 1908, 16 North Ellen Street, Dundee. 8
Education: Left school, Jan 1910, Morgan Academy, Dundee. 8
Census: 1911 Census, 2 Apr 1911, 35 North Wellington Street, Clepington, Dundee, Forfarshire. 5 (Household Member)
Occupation: Office boy in Jute manufacturing industry, 2 Apr 1911, Dundee, Forfarshire. 5
Military: 1914.
Occupation: Private Soldier, 1914, France.
Parents
Father: David Robertson Fisher (1861-1937) 5
Mother: Elisabeth Reid Stewart (1857-1917)
Notes
General:
David Fisher
Facts I have established . . .
He died on 14/09/1914 at the Battle of the Aisne, in North-Eastern France. His regiment, the Queen's Own Cameron Highlanders suffered heavy losses on that day (their first major losses of the war) especially between 1pm and 3pm in the area around Vendresse and Chivy (approx 5 miles north of the River Aisne) - Reims was the nearest large city.
The Battle of the Aisne was a pivotal battle in the Great War. After the Germans held off the British and French armies they dug into their positions, and from this point onwards, trench warfare began. The Germans had been retreating after the Battle of the Marne - the battle is described in detail on the following web page <http://batmarn1.club.fr/edmoch20.htm>
The weather was foul that day and the Allied Forces were up against it, attacking an enemy on top of a steep hill, just across a river, which the army had to cross. The British and French had little in the way of artillery support and the fighting was confused, often hand-to-hand.
His regiment fought in kilts ("men in petticoats").
He won 3 medals, the 1914 Star the British Medal and the Victory Medal (pictured below). He also had a clasp on one of his medals, although I have not yet found out what this was for (maybe the "Mons clasp"? see below).
It appears that he was originally in a different regiment (in the "SOLDIERS DIED IN THE GREAT WAR 1914-1919",) book he was noted as having been formerly in the R.H. (either Ross-shire Highlanders or the Royal Highlanders (Black Watch) I guess) . . . how he came to transfer, I do not know.
His grave was not identified, so he is commemorated at the La Ferte-Sous-Jouarre war approx 10 miles south of his place of death.
His army number was 9443, although he was formerly 3/2072, R.H.
He was aged 15
THINGS I AM NOT SO SURE ABOUT
When did he arrive in France? The Camerons arrived on the battlelines on 5th September 1914 (I think they arrived at Le Havre on 1st September). David's medal record indicates that he entered the theatre of war on 14/08/1914. Did this describe his joining up date, or was it actually the date he arrived in France (maybe with the Black Watch or Ross-shire Highlanders?). The Black Watch were certainly in France right from the outbreak of hostilities - they arrived somewhere between the 12th and 17th August, so this might fit in with the 14/08/1914 "entered theatre of war" entry.
Why did he transfer? Was this before the outbreak of war? Did he have a specialist role that was useful to the Camerons. He appears to have been the only one who did transfer from the RH to the Camerons (from the death registers). Did he transfer to join a mate or a brother?
SOURCES
1.FROM "SOLDIERS DIED IN THE GREAT WAR 1914-1919", Parts 61-70.
Transcribed at Cardiff Library, on 20/03/2007 by Alistair David Pitt
Part 66 -"The Queen's Own (Cameron Highlanders)" 1st Battalion.
Fisher, David, b, Dundee, Forfarshire, enlisted Dundee (place of residence Dundee), (solider #) 9443, Pte, killed in action, France & Flanders, 14/09/1914, formerly (soldier #) 3/2072, R.H.
Note: (R.H. was former regiment - the one he must have joined on enlistment - was this the Royal Highlanders (Black Watch) or Ross-shire Highlanders (part of Seaforth Highlanders)?
2.I checked the regiment's death register and I counted 136 soldiers (ranks) who also died that day. Read elsewhere that the Cameron's lost 170 men that day. It was the first day of major losses that the Cameron Highlander's experience in WW1. They had arrived in France on 5th September and joined the First (Guard's) Brigade of the British Expeditionary force (replacing the Munster Rifles?)
3.Memorial register 15-16. Vol 7 including La Fertι-sous-Jouarre. , Pte. David, 9443. 1st Bn. Cameron Highlanders. 14th Sep 1914. Age 19. Son of David Fisher, of 39 Dallfield Terrace, Dundee, and the late Elizabeth Stewart
FISHER
N.b. Elizabeth died in 1917, after David's death, but before the memorial registers were written
4.Western Mail 7/8/1914
Appeal for 500,000 men
Everywhere in London the proposed expansion of the Army by the addition of half a million men is hailed with enthusiasm. As the Prime Minister explained this afternoon, this will include those who came from overseas: but it is a tremendous effort to put forth, and the public imagination is much impressed. This with the vote of credit of £100,000,000 will do more than anything else to impress our people with the gigantic work now in hand, and the military authorities are quite sure that there will be no great difficulty in getting the men. Youths who have passed through the Boy Scout training, and many who have not are flocking to the colours. There was never less shouting and never more doing than in this war. The recruiting authorities will be busy enough for the next few weeks both for the Regular Army and the Territorials.
5.Medals (from <http://www.royalirishlancers.co.uk/family.htm>)1914 Star
This medal was awarded to those who served in France and Belgium between August 1914 and November 1914. The medal bears the date 1914 in the centre of the wreath together with the dates "Aug" and "Nov" above and below. The medal ribbon is red, white and blue.The medal is named on the plain reverse. A bar for those under fire between August and November was issued, the "Mons Clasp" (could this be David's clasp)? This medal is commonly referred to as the Mons Star, since the majority of the recipients took part in the retreat from Mons.
British War Medal
This medal was awarded to record the end of the First World War, however this was extended to cover operations upto 1920 which included mine clearance. The medal ribbon bears stripes of blue, black, white and orange. The medal is normally named . No bars were issued with this medal. Over 6 million of these were issued and as such it is a fairly common medal, however medals issued to certain regiments etc., may command more interest.
Victory Medal
This medal bears the same basic design which was adopted by a number of other Allied nations. The medal ribbon bears multiple stripes of various colour . The medal is normally named . No bars were issued with this medal and over 6 million of these were issued making it a fairly common medal
11
David Robertson Fisher
Sex: M
Individual Information
Birth: 3 Nov 1861 - Rosebank Street, Dundee, Forfarshire 12
Christening:
Death: 13 Jan 1937 - St. Paul's Hospital, Endall St, Holborn, London 13
Burial:
Cause of Death: Cardiac failure. Also enlarged prostate and supra pubic cystostomy
AFN :
Events
Census: 2 Apr 1871, 147 Rosebank Street, Dundee, Forfarshire. 14
Census: 3 Apr 1881, 131 Rosebank Street, Dundee, Forfarshire. 2
Occupation: Jute Weaver, 3 Apr 1881. 2
Occupation: Baker, 29 Apr 1882. 2
Census: 1891, 5 Apr 1891, 20 Lawson Place, Dundee, Forfarshire.
Occupation: Draper's Collector, 29 Dec 1893. 15
Census: 1901, 31 Mar 1901, 10 S George Street, St. Andrews parish, Dundee, Forfarshire.
Occupation: Draper's collector, 6 Mar 1908, Dundee, Forfarshire. 4
Residence: At time of David Fisher's (Born 1895)enrolment at Morgan Academy, 17 Aug 1908, 16 North Ellen Street, Dundee. 8 (Occupant)
Census: 1911 Census, 2 Apr 1911, 35 North Wellington Street, Clepington, Dundee, Forfarshire. 5
Occupation: Assistant Agent for the Charity Organisation Society, 2 Apr 1911, Dundee, Forfarshire. 5
Occupation: Charity Organisation Society Agent, 14 Jul 1922. 16
Residence: 14 Jul 1922, 39 Dallfield Terrace, Dundee, Forfarshire. 16
Residence: 13 Jan 1937, 1 Hyndford Place, Dundee, Forfarshire. 13
Parents
Father: Alexander Fisher (Cir 1800-1893)
Mother: Elizabeth Hunter Robertson (1828-1893)
Spouses and Children
1. *Elisabeth Reid Stewart (12 Mar 1857 - 18 Apr 1917)
Marriage: 29 Apr 1882 - United Presbyterian Church, Dundee, Forfarshire 16
Children:
1. Joan Fisher (Cir 1883-Cir 1956)
2. Alexander Fisher (1886- ) 4
3. Elizabeth Fisher (1888- ) 4
4. Joseph Carrie Fisher (1893-1954) 6
5. David Fisher (1895-1914) 8
2. Marjory Scott (2 Dec 1871 - 10 Oct 1942)
Marriage: 14 Jul 1922 - United Free Church, 150 City Road, Lochee, Dundee, Forfarshire 17
Eliza Fisher
Sex: F
Individual Information
Birth: Abt 1846 - Farnworth, Lancashire. 19
Christening:
Death:
Burial:
Cause of Death:
AFN :
Events
Census: 1871, 2 Apr 1871, Farnworth, Lancashire. 20
Occupation: Winder in cotton mill, 2 Apr 1871, Farnworth, Lancashire. 14
Census: 1881, 3 Apr 1881, 51 Bolton Street, Oldham, Lancashire. 21
Occupation: Cotton Carder's wife, 3 Apr 1881. 19
Parents
Father: Martha Fisher (Cir 1825- ) 18
Mother:
Spouses and Children
1. *Robert Sumner (1848 - 1931) 18
Marriage: 18 Apr 1869 - Farnworth with Kearsley, Lancashire 18
Children:
1. Mary Sumner (1869- )
2. Solino Sumner (1871-1942)
3. Martha Jane Sumner (Abt 1873- )
4. Elizabeth Sumner (1879- )
Notes
Marriage Notes (Robert Sumner)
Neville Grieves: His recollections from conversations with his mother, Olga Hubbard.
Robert was originally a Mill Manager in Oldham. He was sent by his employer to russia to open a factory as manager in charge. Neville's brother had pictures of their house in Russia. It was a bungalow type house (probably taken in the 1890s) with a verandah. They also had servants including a coachman, cleaners and a woman who used to do the washing.
They had a bull mastiff named Carlo. One day Carlo was locked outside the house by mistake and was killed by wolves.
My notes say that they were "not too far out of Moscow (St. Petersburg) - ??? - Robert had a friend who worked for the Tsar. Robert (and family?) stayed in the Tsar's palace. They used to stay for long periods (where?).
Elizabeth Fisher
Sex: F
AKA: Dicky 22,
Lizzie Fisher 5
Individual Information
Birth: 20 Aug 1888 - Dundee, Forfarshire 23
Christening:
Death:
Burial:
Cause of Death:
AFN :
Events
Residence: Australia Then New Zealand. 23
Residence: Dundee, Forfarshire. 23
Census: 1891, 5 Apr 1891, 20 Lawson Place, Dundee, Forfarshire.
Census: 1901, 31 Mar 1901, 10 S George Street, St. Andrews parish, Dundee, Forfarshire.
Witness at marriage: Of brother Alexander, to Elizabeth Martin in 1908, 6 Mar 1908, 18 Albany Terrace, Dundee. 4
Census: 1911 Census, 2 Apr 1911, 35 North Wellington Street, Clepington, Dundee, Forfarshire. 5 (Household Member)
Occupation: Jute Weaver, 2 Apr 1911, Dundee, Forfarshire. 5
Parents
Father: David Robertson Fisher (1861-1937) 5
Mother: Elisabeth Reid Stewart (1857-1917)
Spouses and Children
1. *Dickson ( - )
Marriage: Australia? 24
Notes
General:
She was known as Dicky within Margaret Smith's New Zealand family, since her married name was Dickson.
They came across her working at a hotel in Cambridge, New Zealand, as a chef while visiting the racetrack in town.
She had a close friend, Gwen, who she lived with in the hotel.
She was apparently quite a hard character, with a thick scottish accent.
There was a story recounted, where after some people (drinking?) in the hotel, declared themselves to be Catholic, Gwen declared her catholicism also - although she was a lapsed Catholic.
At this point "Dicky" stood up and announced in a loud scottish voice, "Well I'm a Protestant and proud of it" or words to this effect. 22
Elspeth Fisher
Sex: F
Individual Information
Birth: 18 Aug 1831 - Errol, Perth, Scotland 3
Christening: 2 Sep 1831 - Errol, Perth, Scotland 3
Death:
Burial:
Cause of Death:
AFN :
Parents
Father: Alexander Fisher (Cir 1800-1893)
Mother: Isabella Mitchell ( - )
Evelyn Fisher
Sex: F
AKA: Evie Fisher
Individual Information
Birth: 20 Jan 1949 - Dundee, Forfarshire 25
Christening:
Death: 10 Dec 1990 - Dundee, Forfarshire 25
Burial:
Cause of Death:
AFN :
Events
Occupation: State Enrolled Nurse.
Parents
Father: Joseph Carrie Fisher (1893-1954) 6
Mother: Isabella Gair Milne (1909-1996) 7
Spouses and Children
1. Living
Children:
1. Living
2. Living
Sources
1. 1881 Census Scotland, 282-3: Dist 23: 89. Surety: 2.
2. 1881 Census Scotland, Surety: 3.
3. IGI Family Search website, Surety: 2.
4. Marriage certificate: Scotland, 1908 Marriages in the District of St. Mary in the Burgh of Dundee.
No. 71. Surety: 4.
5. 1911 census of Scotland, 35 N Wellington Street, Clepington, Dundee, enumeration district (ED) 282, page 23. Surety: 3.
6. From Glascoed people file, Surety: 3.
7. From Glascoed people file, Surety: 3. .... Birth Certificate Scotland, Surety: 3.
8. database(http://www.fdca.org.uk/Dundee_Records.html : accessed 26 Jul 2018), Morgan Academy records. Surety: 3.
9. Birth Certificate Scotland, Surety: 4.
10. Death Certificate - Scotland, Surety: 4. .... Commonwealth War Graves Commission website, http://www.cwgc.org/search/casualty_details.aspx?casualty=878596. Surety: 3.
11. St. Catherine's House Index, Surety: 2.
12. Birth Certificate, 282-1 : Entry 1621. Surety: 3.
13. Death Certificate - Scotland, Surety: 3.
14. 1871 census (2nd April 1871.), Surety: 3.
15. Son's Birth Certificate, Surety: 3.
16. Marriage Certificate, Surety: 3.
17. Marriage Certificate, Surety: 2.
18. Marriage certificate England & Wales, April 18th 1869. At the Parish Church in Farnworth with Kearsley, Lancashire.
Page 106. No. 211. Surety: 3.
19. 1881 Census Scotland, RG11/4082/50/94. Surety: 2.
20. 1871 census (2nd April 1871.), RG10/3917. Surety: 4.
21. 1881 Census, RG11 4082 Folio 50 Page 94. Surety: 4.
22. Margaret Barratt (nee Smith), Surety: 3.
23. Personal recollection - Margaret Pitt, Surety: 1.
24. Margaret Barrett (nee Smith), Margaret Barrett's family tree, Surety: 1.
25. Personal recollection - Margaret Pitt, Surety: 3.